I had a dream the other night. The kind of dream that sticks with you.
I was hanging out in a city. Urban. Cars. Sidewalks. Big buildings. Noise.
My friends were having a street concert. There were about 50 people gathered to listen. The concert was like an all-day music event. Slightly Christian, but not “preachy.” Just hanging out with good people, good culture, and good music.
A heckler in the crowd picked up on the fact that the musicians were Christian. And he started asking loud and not-so-nice questions. One of the musicians lost his cool and joined in the “debate” with this guy.
I knew things were going to get bad.
Shortly after that, a woman and a few “men-in-black” came on the scene. She and her boys were trying to stop the concert, shake up the crowd, and get the musicians to shut up. They started grabbing musicians by the arms.
That’s when I jumped in. I told her that she couldn’t do that. She couldn’t just take them away for playing music.
She said she could. She was taking them to the police. She was some sort of politician or something. I told her to bring the police to us. “Where’s the police? Go get the police.”
Pushing and shoving us backwards, she and her boys were in our faces. We couldn’t stop them from moving us along. She was close enough for me to talk to her. I said we had a right to be there just like anybody else. She said we can’t proclaim our faith like that in the public square. She said we are in violation of others’ rights when we push our faith out like that.
I noticed her “we’s” and “our’s” were different. Like she was including herself in the “we.”
I asked if she was a Christian. “I can’t say that I am. Not in public like this.”
There was a flash of fear in her eyes. She’d been silenced by the Government.
Now, we were being silenced as well.
That’s when I woke up. And I couldn’t help but think that we aren’t far from that becoming a reality in our country. So I had to ask myself what would I do if that was a reality?
I don’t know the answer yet. I hope I would stand firm like I did in that dream.
What would you do?
This is very close, I know this…
What would I do? I’m not sure yet.
But I know that the persecution that we read about in China and other countries is spreading. I hope we’re ready…..
I would try not to eat spicy food too close to bedtime.
But seriously, I hope I’m wrong, but I think a day like that is coming.
Oh man. That’s freaky.
This is something that has been on my mind a lot lately.
Last night I was reading Ava the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego… it’s when we’re faced with situations like theirs or what happened in your dream that the true Christians are revealed.
that will be a scary day, but sadly it could be coming very soon.
As an Atheist living a country where around 80% of the people believe in God, and where no Atheist could get elected President, or to the Senate, I have a different perspective on the subject of religious, or non-religious freedom of expression in America.
I served in Viet Nam. I came home knowing that war was wrong. I did sign some partitions, and contributed some money to anti-war causes, but I never joined the brave men and women who marched in the streets.
I witnessed the Civil Rights revolution, where the police beat people who had the wrong skin color. I watched the Democratic National Convention of 1968 where the police beat demonstrators with clubs.
When I was growing up the late 1940′s, early 50′s, anyone who stated publicly that they were gay stood a good chances of being beaten, fired from their job, or even killed.
I can say with complete confidence that we have more freedom to express our religious, and political, views in public then at any time in our history.
Ed: If there’s anything I appreciate about you, it’s your honesty and your acceptance of others… As I wrote this post, I thought about people who were of other faiths or of no faith at all. And I wondered how they’d take this dream.
One thing I want to explain – I’m not saying that Christians are the only ones who will be silenced in our country. And I’m not saying we’re being blatantly silenced now. But I think a day is coming when nobody, no matter what their belief system, will be able to publicly profess anything. And I think the “WHY” behind this movement will play a huge role in it coming to pass. I don’t think the silencing will come on the basis of what is considered right or wrong, like was the case for those with the “wrong” skin color during the Civil Rights movement. I think the grounds for that silencing will be a preventative measure – to prevent one group from offending another group. We’re at a place where “Political Correctness” is a reality. Where we have to measure what we say by whether or not it will offend another group. One day soon, it won’t be “Politically Correct” to have a street concert where a particular faith might be mentioned. Because those that might be offended have rights as well. I think this train is coming in our country, and I don’t think we’ll be able to stop it.
Well said Mandy.
I always love what Ed brings to faith discussions. We need to be challenged by those we’re trying to reach, right.
The UK is seeing this come more quickly than the US I think, with Australia somewhere on the tracks as well (with our vilification laws in some states).
As we head back over to a place where oppression for religion is a (past?) national sport, all of this is very much in our minds.
You are right Mandy that “Political Correctness” is a reality. There is some fear of not saying what you believe because of possible repercussions of offending a segment of the population.
When I look back at the era I grew up, in the fear of making public statements that would offend someone was also true. Back then it was the fear of offending those in power, and the views of the main stream public.
It was the minorites, ethnic, religious and racial, that would suffer the consequencs for speaking out.
Overall, I think a greater segment of the population has the freedom to say what then believe, than in the past.
I see more freedom of speech, not less.
Thank you for continuing this discussion with me. I sometimes throw crazy ideas out there, but when I do, it’s usually because I want a sounding board. Someone else to bounce this off of.
I completely agree that we’ve hit a highpoint in our freedom of speech – in an age where people can speak their minds. You’ve seen this more than I have. You’ve experienced generations in our country that I haven’t experienced. I was born into this reality. It’s all I know. Maybe that’s why I’m not as focused on where we are, but on where we may be heading. I see a growing trend to this freedom of speech – namely, that someone can freely say: “That offends me” and, right then and there, we are to remove the “that” from our vocabulary or practice or whatever.
Example:
I cringe when I hear someone mention “cowboys and Indians” because I know a large segment of the Native American population will take offense to that phrase. It represents the Native American as the enemy, the savage, the uneducated, the hostile, the bad guy. (And I don’t blame them. If ANY slice of the American population has a right to be defensive, it’s that people group.) Now, with today’s Freedom of speech in place, the Native American has been liberated to say: “This phrase offends me.” And we, as is reasonable and right and good, have removed this particular representation of the Native American from the bulk of our culture.
(Ed, I would like to use another example of the potential that this shift can cause. And I’m not at all choosing this example because of our faith differences. I know you know me and you know that’s not why I’m picking this. I’m confident that you won’t take offense to the following example, I just want to make sure I say it for the rest of those reading our dialogue. And the reality that I’ve even considered adding this parenthetical disclaimer is, indeed, a case in point.)
In the same manner, as this better fits my dream, I can one day see the phrase “I believe in Jesus” to be offensive to others who may not believe in Jesus. The implication of that phrase is that Christians are right and the rest are wrong – bad – uneducated – etc. This is the logical conclusion of such a declaration: If someone believes X, then they will also most likely believe that Y and Z are untrue. How does this play out in the not-too-distant future? Somebody could one day say that “holding up a John 3:16 sign while wearing a rainbow wig” offends them, and boom – just like that – Rainbow Man can’t do that anymore.
Our Freedom of Speech, while at the pinnacle of its existence, may one day be taken over by a very subtle but significant clause: As long as it doesn’t offend anyone else.
You make a good point Mandy. The trend of anti-discrmination laws protecting people’s right can swing to far and restrict the rights some of the public to expressing their own rightful opinions. That is how our social laws seem to flow. First too far in one direction, then too far in the other.
I think we can find a better balance, but it will never be perfect. More individuals, and groups, have greater freedom of expression now, but you are right some groups are starting to finding theirs restricted.
I have faith in that our democracy will protect the freedom of religion, and speech, of it’s citizens. However discrimination is unlikely to ever go away. We must be consistently vigilant about these freedoms our forefathers have fought for.
You and Mike have helped me to understand better why you are concerned. You both make valid points. I see the present as being better than the past, so I have more confidence that when groups are discriminated against our democracy will find a way guarantee everyone’s freedom.
Ed: One thing’s for sure in this whole dialogue: I really really really hope you’re right. And you’ve helped me see how far our country has come in the past 50 years. Thank you for that!
Agreed – we’re not too far from it.
Quite the dream Mandy Lu…..
PS – new blog
Actually, I would say we’ve peaked when it comes to our “freedom” of speech and though, and are now sliding back into a valley.
Yes, being gay, being a minority, having a different viewpoint are more acceptable than in days past.
But there are more restrictions on speaking of things of faith, especially against Christians. A photographer in New Mexico tells someone “No thanks, I don’t want to photograph your same-sex ceremony, here’s a couple of photographers who will.” and she gets sued and fined by the state.
A church in New Jersey gets sued because it will not allow same-sex weddings on it’s property.
Catholic Family Services in Massachettes has to stop doing adoptions because it goes against their belief to place a child with a same-sex couple.
An Episcopal minister in Connecticut gets arrested because he keeps his children home during the week they teach about same-sex marriages in school.
Tell me, where are these people’s freedoms?
Mike, freedom of religion, and speech, is something we must constantly be vigilant about. You have a good point in the NJ case but I disagree with you on the Catholic Family Services Mass. case. I sympathize with the NM photographer, but if you operate a public business you should not be allowed to discriminate against a customer because of their race, gender or sexual orientation.
I looking at all three case I can understand why Churches are becoming more alarmed about what they perceive as a trend towards anti-religious laws. The issue to me is should a church, or it’s members, be exempt from anti-discrimination laws when they operate as a public business, or when they get a license from a government agency. Being an Atheist I have an anti-church bias. I can’t think of a good work around at this time, but I agree we do need to find one.
In the NJ case you cited I agree with you that a church should have the right to not permit practises on it’s property that violate it’s tenants, such as a same-sex marriage. The church has sued the State of NJ over their ruling so we will have to see how this winds up, perhaps in the Supreme Court.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/nyregion/30ocean.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
“A lesbian couple from New Jersey who were barred from holding a civil union ceremony last year at a beachfront pavilion owned by a church group won a legal victory on Monday.”
The case of the NM photographer is a little different because he is operating a business. Public business can’t legally refuse a customer on the basis of race, gender or sexual orientation. I don’t know how the photographer can get around discrimination laws. A 2008 article about the case states the Christian-based Alliance Defense Fund plans to appeal the ruling.
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/357084.aspx
In the case of the Catholic Family Services being required compile with Mass state adoption laws, and their choosing instead to not renew their license, I think the State of Mass. is legally correct. If you can refuse a gay couple from adopting then you can refuse a black couple, or an Atheist couple. Maybe some work around can be figured out by some one smarter than me.
A 2006 article about this case:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/03/01/romney_shifts_on_adoption_by_gays/
I could not find anything about the Episcopal minister in Connecticut, so I can’t comment on it.
Days like this have been coming since before the first coming of Christ, but your dream is still light years away from the trials detailed in Lamentations and Psalm 137. From End of Days to 2012 to that strange fictional ‘christian’ book series re-interpreting/re-imaging Revelation–I forget what the series is called–the apocolyptic art form is simply on the rise, which I think is to be expected since the world was supposed to end 10 years ago anyway. So perhaps your dream is not so much a future you will live to see, but a byproduct of ingesting that art form, a simple result of your mind processing the intellectual intake. (Though since I don’t know what you’ve ingested, I certainly can’t say.) But, if you’ll pardon my point of view, I honestly don’t find your dream all that scary: underground faith is still faith. One might even argue that in such a time of duress, faith would be far, far stronger than it is without such a challenge.
Of course, I would never be one of those people.
Though, as Jesus said, “When hard times come, the love of most will grow cold.” (Can’t remember verse, but it’s a NLT quote.)
And I have met some cold Christians…
My time on this computer is up.
woah. i have chills.
Ed makes such good comment!
What would i do?
Remember how Jesus chose to let himself be carried off to face the government of the day and be judged innocent by the Overlord only to be taken up by the religious ‘right’ who then crucified His Body with the assistance of the government flunkies.
They did what they thought was the ultimate expression of their right to follow God’s Word as they believed it to be, while Jesus then showed them what REAL power was and WHO wields it.
Can we do as He did? Each in our own way? And according to His understanding which is far greater than is our own?
Let us both hope so and work towards.
it matters not what so called ‘leaders’ of mankind do to us – it matters what we do and in whom we believe.
The Lord is the only being we should fear. Scripture tells us we should obey the Law, be it of man or of God.
if enough people in a democracy feel a law is wrong then they have the right to elect those, or convince those already elected, that such is not in accord with their will and alter the law of man accordingly.
No-one has the right to alter the law of God, but so few of us ever see it from His point of view but choose to see it in such a way as to believe that we are in the right while those who do not see things our way are in the wrong.
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